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Post by Joel on Dec 20, 2004 11:52:46 GMT
Hi All Recieved this e-mail this morning: This was sent from to the following recipients: chris@gravitysports.co.uk> amanda@brennan0.fsnet.co.uk chalky311@tiscali.co.uk jim.ewen@virgin.net jhollins@flo2.fsnet.co.uk joeldking@hotmail.com Todd.Oneill@btopenworld.com ed123@ntlworld.com markw@touchtotalk.com If you think the above list of contact addresses (including my own) should be removed from the post and have a good reason, leave a response or e-mail me. I am worried, hope you are to Joel Lee has asked me to remove his e-mail address as it was his work one. He also said he looks foward to seeing us at Dalby, see ya there Lee, gonna kick ur ass
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Post by Tom W on Dec 20, 2004 12:36:14 GMT
Sounds like bullshit to me.
I'll give you a call Joel...
Tom W.
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Post by Graham on Dec 20, 2004 14:25:19 GMT
Joel,
what a absolute load of bollocks this is.
If people wanna ride like this they can. I can't stop them. The ukgsa can't stop em.
If you want to ride good fast hills balls out (and you can because of the saftey mesures). If you don't want to worry about cars, People or the Police.
I for one know where to go and who to go with.
cheers,
Graham
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Post by Tom W on Dec 20, 2004 15:29:23 GMT
Judging by the names on that list - these were all people who were riding back in 2001 / 2002. As far as I know, Joel and Lee are the only ones who have ridden since.
Perhaps whoever is behind this, should give Chalky a ring - and ask him what a "crack" it was having his leg amputated, following his horrific crash in Wales during a similar "Bandit" run.
Every day I get up and walk with a limp, the steel plates in my own leg constantly reminding me how lucky I was not to go the same way.
Like I said - I smell Bullshit, probably just someone trying to provoke us. Just ignore it.
Ride hard, stay safe.
Tom W.
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Post by Michael on Dec 20, 2004 15:33:42 GMT
and I'm not invited........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
F#ck 'em then.
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Post by mobbsy on Dec 20, 2004 16:19:04 GMT
Looking at some of the names on the distribution list I reckon it's from someone in the old Gravity-Sports UK arena! For those of you who don't know Chris Beard and crew that were responsible for Aviemore and also holding regional events in Traws and Dalby.....I know there's been political tension on the gravity bike front, but i'm not sure if this has carried on into the other areas? ? These guys did a great job at a good level and had alot of very good riders in the ranks.....what are the likes of Chalky and Andy, Doctor Danger and Mr Cool doing these days? Do they know we race and organize events? I think the events stopped 'cause Chris became a Dad? Maybe i'm being politically out-of-line, but have we tried to bring them into the fold? What is the relationship here???
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Post by mobbsy on Dec 20, 2004 16:41:07 GMT
Sorry Tom, started my reply hours ago and only just finished it and noticed some more comments have come in!!!! I would like to point out though that Wales was not a bandit run. We all stayed in nice log cabins for the weekend and the road was marshalled and bailed in a similar way to Gurston, but the hill is way more serious. Chalky stuffed it into a drianage ditch that was bailed, just not secured. Despite this, Chalky still turned up with his limp to help marshall the next event which involved a good weekends' riding for approx 35 people, plus evening entertainment and no serious injuries! I'm not going "pro-bandit" ( hmmmm...!!!!!), but as an organisation I think we could benefit from some of these guys who were pioneering our sport here in the UK and have only had the benefit of the sport in mind at the time - we can't tar all the riders ( or certainly organisers) with the same brush. It may be that the "bandit" hasn't seen any action since 2002, hasn't bothered keep up with UKGSA and wants to get out there and ride again? Then again, if it's just some knob who can't be arsed to turn up for races or doesn't like losing I agree with Mike!!!!
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Post by Joel on Dec 20, 2004 16:53:59 GMT
Hi Mobsy
I was riding at Traws for about a year, I can tell you that at the time of Chalkys crash, I wasn't there, bales were not used on that hill. I can tell you that when Tom hit the bridge no bales were used there. Bales only ever seemed to appear at Traws after people hit things and had serious injuries.
As for the politics, well thats old news and I think it best to leave as water under the bridge as it is no longer relevant. As yet none of the "Old Crew" has turned up to a UKGSA event, however we have been in touch and there is interest from them. Hopefully we will be seeing Chalky, Andy, Mr. Cool, Tommy, Dr. Danger and as many others as possible at Dalby.
Here's to the future of Gravity Racing.
Joel
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Post by Tom W on Dec 21, 2004 10:10:13 GMT
I consider any event run on an "open" road, without insurance, proper bales, or sufficient marshalls... to be a "bandit run". That includes Traws. Five or ten bales do not constitute safety, in fact it is probably more dangerous than having none at all, because it gives riders a false sense of security without actually providing any protection. For example, at our Dalby events we have 400 bales on the course (They are all paid for and stored nearby ready for our use). How many bales were there at Dalby when you kissed that tree Mobbsy? Sure, Traws was a laugh - but what did we (or anybody else) know back then? I certainly stopped laughing when I hit the bridge. Please, lets not open the can of worms surrounding the demise of Gravitysports.co.uk again. Like Joel said, it's water under the bridge. Lets look forwards instead of back, and for me the future lies in absolute rider safety, bar none. Badit = Bullshit. Its your life, look after it. Ride hard, stay safe. Tom W.
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Post by Joel on Dec 21, 2004 12:26:20 GMT
On responding to the email for more details I have been told this:
Firstly, 1 run!!! who the hell is gonna drive hours for just 1 run???
Secondly, the M62!!!!!!!!! Nuff said!!!!
Joel
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Post by UK Gravity Sports Asscociation on Dec 21, 2004 12:40:16 GMT
hello folks, Has I've said before the ukgsa can't stop people riding on public roads like this. But we all need to keep the future of our sport in mind. Please think about how these bandit runs may affect the ukgsa's efforts to secure more venues for more safe races. We are all ambassadors for our sport. Please don't go pissing off people we might want to be nice to us in the future. Cheers, Graham PS. M62? ?!!!!
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Post by mobbsy on Dec 21, 2004 17:28:20 GMT
Guys, a couple of responses to Tom and Joels comments.....
Tom, I understand that that from an official capacity a race is either "safe" or not, but i've been involved in similar bandit runs and I don't think there should be an "all or nothing" approach when I've also spent several hours loading haybails after a weekends racing at these events, and my wife has spent several weekends stood with a radio marshalling. I still think this has little to do with the open road free-for-all that Bandit is suggesting, and which should not be encouraged. When I wrapped the tree at Dalby I actually went through the first layer of bales and flipped up in the air by the bales before the tree and connected about 4ft up the trunk. Not sure how many bales there were but certainly more than 5 or 10! I do agree that it wasn't possible to put bails everywhere, and this was, as Joel pointed out, initially by best judgement and then later by lessons learnt. If we limit our riding to contest standard rulings only, we won't get much riding in in a year. I still see a possibility for 3 different types of events..... 1) Fun Runs (NOT bandit runs, but bailed, permitted road use, marshalled, best efforts at safety. 2) Full road closure racing with a more relaxed format ie Gurston, but not serious enough to qualify for IGSA World Cup points, 3) Grand Prix style "WhiteAir" type events leading to possible World Point Ratings.
I asked the political question not because I wanted to open a "can of worms", but because I wasn't aware of what had happened ( not being a luge rider but "tagging along" for the stand-up...), just heard some griping about gravity bike issues a couple of years ago and then nothing.......You can fill me in on this at the next race to save airing it again here!!!!!
My main concern is that we are actively trying to encourage these "old crew" guys to join our ranks and not segregate them because of past allegiances, but if they all know who we are, where to contact and come to race, then great.
Finally, please understand that I'm not trying to discredit the improvements that UKGSA have made to our sport in any way. I have nothing but admiration and praise for the commitment shown in organizing the events to the level that they are today; the development of the sport in the UK is OUR history, like it or not, which those of us who were involved with should be able to feel some pride in seeing how it's progressed!
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Post by Tom W on Dec 22, 2004 9:51:17 GMT
Well said Steve - I'm pleased you made the point about non-race events on well secured road, with race-level safety. Ultimately this is leading us towards organized freerides, something we discussed seriously at our recent UKGSA meeting.
I guess that Mr. Bandit just wants to ride more often, which is why he's trying to organize his Bandit Runs. However, certain aspects of his idea just stink - especially the "Been there done that" T-Shirts for those who survive 7 runs. If he is intending to ride the bloody M62, there is a very good chance that some people may not make more than 7 runs... ever.
This is just macho glory hunting, nothing to do with good riding.
Getting back to the Freeride idea : Having done a month of freeriding / racing throughout Europe this summer, I noticed that Freerides are much better attended than race events (But the overall standard of riding was much lower). Safety at freerides is just as important as at race events, as they tend to attract less experienced riders who crash more often.
We are aiming to encourage more freeriding in the UK for 2005, just not down the M62. We have a tough enough time getting our events insured, even with our current fastidious approach to rider safety. All it will take is one accident or fatality in "Bandit Country" to hit the headlines, and we can kiss our insurance goodbye for ever...
Like Graham said, we can't stop "Bandit Runs" if that's what people want to do - But MUST do everything we possibly can to discourage them.
Ride hard, stay safe.
Tom W.
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Post by Longy on Dec 22, 2004 13:24:21 GMT
Erm just to set the record straight i've had an email off a bloke asking if this Bandit dude is me so just for the record the only Bandit stuff i do is annoying shopping center police and security as part of the underground "Micro-board Guerilla" thang.
I've never advocated folk lash hills as part of a disorganised race groove as its legally well dodgy and i was threatened with legal action about 3 years ago concerning one event......to reiterate "it aint me"
Cheers all
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Post by Ian r on Dec 22, 2004 21:58:06 GMT
A'right Longy , no worries mate. Just to give you some reasurance, I (having only met you briefly, I think, at Dalby a couple of years ago, or could hace been another guy from Lush.... : hadn't given a great deal of thought to who the 'Bandit' might be, least of all thought of your good self. Hope to see you at Dalby. If you still need that address for a cheque, drop me a personal (members)mail & I'll send it to ya. Regards, ian.
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Post by MarkSimpson on Dec 22, 2004 22:40:00 GMT
Whilst I agree that safety has to be the utmost priority, I've got to admire this guy's "get up and go"!
I know the UKGSA doesn't want to risk sanctioning these events, but please bare in mind these people DO want to run more regularly than at "organised" events, and NEED somewhere to practice! The only way they CAN do this, when THEY are ready, is to go to a "Bandit Run"! It's a sad fact, but true! If you are desperate for practice, a thrill or just the "crack" .......WHAT OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS THERE? This happens the world over, for the same reasons, so lets not knock the enthusiasm out of these people! Let's just wish them well, and if they need any advice let's give it freely, with no predjudice, eh? As I see it this is a dangerous sport/pastime WHEREVER IT IS DONE! At least they WANT to ride! You never know! ...we may even see a champion out of their ranks one day?
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Post by Longy on Dec 23, 2004 8:17:37 GMT
Cheers Ian the cheque for Dalby is ready to be posted mate and will be after Christmas, im looking forwards to a full year of (hopefully) injury free racing for once and bigging up the Casperskates ........i think we may have met at one of the early Aviemores 97-98 maybe but i'm sure you would have remembered my visage as its not half as good looking as the Lush lads arf arf.
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Post by casper luke on Dec 23, 2004 10:40:33 GMT
So Mark you admire this guy's get up and go, well why don't you get up and sort out a event instead of complaining and waiting for someone else to sort it out then? Its easy to make comments, something else to make an event happen. I organise summer skate jams and winter car park sessions to feed my desire to skate. Have you been riding recently? In case you did'nt notice it is winter here, this limits any riding severly (salted bearings anyone?). People need to practice, the key word here is PRACTICE. You cannot race safely on an open road, no matter how good the riders involved are, you cannot anticipate reactions of other road users. Some advice on this matter Find a private road (ask first, you may be surprised) or a very quiet one. Have a method of stopping/ holding traffic at the top of the hill. Have a chase vehicle, this needs to stay at a reasonable distance, so they are able to stop suddenly if needed. Ensure all riders are wearing hi-vis vests, this is especially important for luges as the riding profile is so small. No RACING, all riders need to discuss what they are planning on doing before setting off on the hill (whaddya mean i cant slide in front of you?). You may think i am being over cautious, but experience has shown me that. If you find a suitable road, let me know I will be more than happy to help. Whats the score with the bike show??
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Post by Joel on Dec 23, 2004 11:32:13 GMT
Mark, I think you have the wrong end of the stick here.
Of course we need to practise, and of course we wanna ride as much as possibe, I love to ride, it's great fun. However, there is a difference between meeting up with your mates for a bit of a blast and an organised bandit run.
Some mates and I are meeting up over Christmas to do a bit of riding. WE will be riding local roads that we know well and have assesed the dangers of. Also being local we will be respecting the other road users/land owners, if we piss them off 1. we wont get to ride there again, and 2. they know who we are.
The Bandit runs suggested are firstly organised events, it now becomes more than just a few mates agreeing to meet up, someone needs to take responsibility. Secondly the roads being ridden are not known by the riders, dangers are not known and they wont mind pissing off the locals. And thirdly if you are turning up for what is possibly only gonna be one run then you are gonna go hell for leather. Hello, accident/injury city!
Finally is a concern purly surrounding immage. If there is an accident when a few mates are riding and the papers get old of it you get: "Idiots Injured in New Extreme Sport!" Bad enough. If the same happens on an organised Bandit run it would be x10 worse: "Illegal Extreme Bandits, What Are The Police Going To Do About These Menaces To Our Roads?" Just what we need.
Think about it, have fun, but be respectful and be SAFE!
Joel
P.S. It isn't just our bodies we're risking, it is also those of other road users and pedestrians. They don't have the choice!
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Post by MarkSimpson on Dec 23, 2004 13:11:44 GMT
Who are we to dictate to others how they live their lives? (or end them) Do we not have enough"nanny state" politics in this country? Are we still entitled to an opinion?
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" .....and so are you! If these people want to go and have fun, however it is done, HELP THEM DO IT AS SAFELY AS POSSIBLE! They'll do it anyway, so make sure they get all the support they need to be as safe as possible! DON'T GO OFF IN A HUFF COZ THEY WONT PLAY BALL EXACTLY THE WAY YOU WANT! Self rightious indignation helps NO-ONE! ....no matter how well meaning!
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