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Post by team-art on Jan 5, 2012 21:58:01 GMT
Would it be a good idea if UK soapbox events ran a separate C4 European class?
With a view to the future it might encourage UK competitors to build carts that corner and stop better with the bonus that they could also race in Europe?
A separate class would prevent any current carts from becoming redundant and mean that irrespective of class your cart could remain competitive?
Just a thought. What you think??
Rich
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Post by Scottish Cartie Association on Jan 5, 2012 22:37:55 GMT
I think C4 carties are pretty much already compliant with most UK specs, and if not could easily be made so.
I'm not overly keen on a proliferation of different classes within the existing "major groups" though, as race organisers have enough to do as it is.
I would like to see a move towards some of the european requirements, as they seem well specified in some areas - particularly roll bar construction.
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Post by neils on Jan 6, 2012 9:04:23 GMT
I am not against rule changes on a safety basis, but after some deliberation I am not keen on limiting the regulations so much that all the carts are clones, the diversity of the carts construction and aesthetics are key players in the appeal of this sport. This also provides scope for expirementation and design development.
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Post by team-art on Jan 6, 2012 9:29:00 GMT
I am not against rule changes on a safety basis, but after some deliberation I am not keen on limiting the regulations so much that all the carts are clones, the diversity of the carts construction and aesthetics are key players in the appeal of this sport. This also provides scope for expirementation and design development. Would an "additional" c4 class not create more diversity? |
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Post by azuma on Jan 6, 2012 17:59:03 GMT
I don't think we have to worry too much about the rules regarding safety if we adhere to or exceed the CSE requirements. Looking at some of the C4 carts they do have a roll bar, but in my opinion there is insufficient bracing and they are the wrong shape to be effective in a high speed accident.  Also there does not appear to be a significant amount of chassis bracing? Maybe they don't need it as their top speeds are less than those in the UK "• The fastest track : Sestriere (IT) ( Average speed 80km/h ) " www.sejkora.cz/team_en.htmlNice looking bodies though, but have to agree, in the UK the different styles are part of the appeal. The above is only my opinion - so dont shoot me  |
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Post by andy on Jan 7, 2012 11:23:37 GMT
As we all know the guys across Europe have been racing for many years. They have a lot more events than the Uk. Their tracks are generally more technical than ours and as a result their carts have developed differently. '' The C4" class is probably the closet to our current rule set....How would A C4 cart fair on uk tracks ? We have all built our carts to suit the Uk...and they are what they are........but what is to say a different aproach may not be better ??
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Post by team-art on Jan 7, 2012 14:29:22 GMT
I don't think we have to worry too much about the rules regarding safety if we adhere to or exceed the CSE requirements. Looking at some of the C4 carts they do have a roll bar, but in my opinion there is insufficient bracing and they are the wrong shape to be effective in a high speed accident. Also there does not appear to be a significant amount of chassis bracing? Maybe they don't need it as their top speeds are less than those in the UK "• The fastest track : Sestriere (IT) ( Average speed 80km/h ) " www.sejkora.cz/team_en.htmlNice looking bodies though, but have to agree, in the UK the different styles are part of the appeal. The above is only my opinion - so dont shoot me 50mph is quite a high “average” speed? So the max speed must be somewhat higher. There’s no evidence to suggest our carts are any safer in a crash? (perhaps the Europeans don’t crash enough ;D) Again a lack of evidence, but as they appear to brake and corner better, it might be argued that a Sejkora cart is safer than most of our carts? I wouldn’t have any hesitation about using a Sejkora cart on any UK course. Only my opinion  |
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Post by peasnbarley on Jan 7, 2012 22:16:41 GMT
;D We all know Rich you would drive anything including a modified Reliant Robin that cruises at 80mph so you would probably feel safe racing a bath tub provided it had at least three wheels. |
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Post by team-art on Jan 8, 2012 9:27:56 GMT
;D We all know Rich you would drive anything including a modified Reliant Robin that cruises at 80mph so you would probably feel safe racing a bath tub provided it had at least three wheels. “fair cop” Charlie, but it does have a roll cage! ;D  |
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Post by grahamk on Jan 8, 2012 18:27:07 GMT
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Post by Scottish Cartie Association on Jan 8, 2012 19:29:21 GMT
Looks like a cartie to me
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Post by grahamk on Jan 8, 2012 21:34:50 GMT
There's always yin.
C4? might have been a closer answer.
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Post by Scottish Cartie Association on Jan 8, 2012 21:38:47 GMT
Nah. MISFITS. One of the US illegal racers.
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Post by grahamk on Jan 8, 2012 21:55:04 GMT
I know who's it is but if i or anyone else was to build it and add a bit bracing to the roll bar would it be classed as a C4 cartie. I have seen 100's of c4 pictures but not many with the shell off, but imagine they would look much like the one in this link.
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Post by team-art on Jan 9, 2012 8:19:28 GMT
I know who's it is but if i or anyone else was to build it and add a bit bracing to the roll bar would it be classed as a C4 cartie. I have seen 100's of c4 pictures but not many with the shell off, but imagine they would look much like the one in this link. If it’s 2300mm or less in length I think it would meet the C4 spec. As you say: roll bar bracing? 4 wheel foot operated brakes....yes must use a steering wheel.....yes 2300mm max length.....? Maximum tyre diameter 450mm....yes ( no 20” wheels) Max weight inc driver 200kg.....yes Cheers Rich |
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Post by Scottish Cartie Association on Jan 9, 2012 9:23:02 GMT
questionable rollbar clearance too.
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Post by peasnbarley on Jan 9, 2012 10:52:17 GMT
Reading through the lads build process brings back just how much work is involved. I would be concerned with the weld quality shown in the pictures and would certainly advise folk not to weld galvanised material. Zinc oxide fumes produced during welding cause very sever short term flue symptoms that last 2-3days. However sanding down the galvanised surface as suggested is not necessary because the galvanised coating is vaporised and becomes zinc oxide at the temperature required to melt steel. All that is required is to remove enough galvanised material to enable the first arc of the weld.
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Post by caisse433 on Jan 19, 2012 17:48:02 GMT
Hello everyone, as a pilot C4 in Belgium, I'll just join in this debate!
to abort, for me, looking at the many photos of your soapbox, I think a lot of your vehicles could meet C4 with little modification.
Does it lack that your racing car?? the brakes on all four wheels, but some have already, for against the foot control does not seem to be often present, but it's easy to make a change, and believe me, it brings security control!
the rollbar, standards FISD, again, no great difficulty, except perhaps for cases with a roll cage!
management, bicycle handlebars are not allowed, but just make a half circle or a simple rectangle and it is ok.
The most complicated is certainly the wheel size! Indeed, it is limited to 45 cm in diameter to 4.9 kPa maximum pressure
regarding the maximum length, it is good to 230cm, but without the tension rings.
Now, for discussion with the new vice-president of the FISD, Mr. Grignard, it may be that the FISD agrees that you keep your settlement, the FISD has already the same scenario with the Spanish Federation, their soapboxes being quite different from what is being done in the rest of europe!
I said well, this is an impression that emerges from my discussion with Mr. Grignard, not being myself in the committee of the FISD.
In the next assenblées gérérales Federation of Belgian and TPP, I will talk about your desires to come rolling in our race.
I said well, this is an impression that emerges from my discussion with Mr. Grignard, not being myself in the committee of the FISD.
In the next assenblées gérérales Federation of Belgian and TPP, I will talk about your desires to come rolling in our race
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Post by drscope on Jan 21, 2012 0:39:28 GMT
I know who's it is but if i or anyone else was to build it and add a bit bracing to the roll bar would it be classed as a C4 cartie. I have seen 100's of c4 pictures but not many with the shell off, but imagine they would look much like the one in this link. If it’s 2300mm or less in length I think it would meet the C4 spec. As you say: roll bar bracing? 4 wheel foot operated brakes....yes must use a steering wheel.....yes 2300mm max length.....? Maximum tyre diameter 450mm....yes ( no 20” wheels) Max weight inc driver 200kg.....yes Cheers Rich As one of those ILLEGAL MISFITS from the states, I just wanted to point out this car IS less then your 230cm maximum length. It’s not here right now for me to measure, but from memory I can say it is within your specs. While we may be “ILLEGAL” racers, we do have rules to go by! We use a maximum size limit of 4 feet wide x 8 feet long. That works out to 121.92cm wide x 243.84cm long. This car is just over 7 feet or 213cm. I believe the tire he is currently running is an 11-400x5 2ply which is 10.5 inches in diameter or 26.67cm. This car was NOT built for racing! This car was built to be as light weight as possible with the intention that he could load it on and off the roof of his street car by himself. We do use this car to scout new hills and also for fun runs, but these are runs where you are NOT going to get in over your head. When it comes to the actual racing, he built a similar car with much stronger and heavier materials for the added safety. It has NO suspension. He runs a 15-500x6 tire which has an OD of 14.8 inches or 37.59cm. That car was latter converted to much more of a lay back driver seating position. And he was able to win the 2011 East Coast Challenge against the best racers the States had to offer! |
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