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Post by Joel on Jan 5, 2005 17:25:22 GMT
Thanks Longy
Let me see if I can explain what it is about you at the SCC that has got my Goat.
Before I do that though, I'd just like to make it clear, riding roads outside of organised events is going to be impossible to stop. Why? Because it is fun, it gives variety, improves skill, we are passionate about our sport and want ride as much as possible, that includes me!
Now, based on that, what is my problem with the SCC?
1. Number one is, of course, safety. As I have said a few times now I have been in sporadic contact with Bazil over the past 2-3 years. Over that period I have tried to get him and the SCC to come along to Gurston and get proper equipment. His response has always been more than dismissive, in fact he has even gone as far as to say that they didn't want to, and never would wear any safety equipment.
I’m glad to see that they are now putting on helmets, however they are not the type that will take any sort of impact. Yes, I know not even my DOT Luge helmet will take an impact with a car, but it will take a high-speed tumble across the tarmac. My leathers also protect my skin, and that means that when I come off I can use my whole body as a brake instead of being shredded.
2. Moving onto the videos. You say, “What is the difference between the “My Hill” video and yours?” A lot. Yes, we are both riding on public roads, but there is a lot more than that to consider. As Ben and I are riding in an uncontrolled environment we are exercising extreme restraint. There is hardly more than a few seconds between each dab of the brakes to control our speed, we remain in formation and never leave the left hand lane of the road. In contrast you are quite obviously going “Balls Out” and have very little regard to others. Before you say it, I know you say you have marshals, but they have been known to fail, I know! Even when riding on a supposedly closed road you still need to assume that there could be something coming at any second and be prepared for it. May I now go on to add that in the preview to your DVD it is quite obvious that not all the roads/places you are riding are “closed”. The footpaths in parks and place where the jump is set up are surrounded by the public.
While you are quite right in saying that our equipment will do very little in the event of a collision it does also present an image to those who see us and the videos. It shows them that we do care about safety and even when having fun we take things seriously.
3. Finally equipment. What you do looks great fun and I’m glad you enjoy it, but YOU DO NOT RIDE STREETLUGE!!!! This is what really worries me. When you tell people that you ride Streetluge and advertise your video as a Streetluge film then people think what you are doing is Streetluge. When kids start copying you, don’t wear any leathers/helmet (coz the guys in the video don’t) and then get hurt, the public backlash is turned on the real Streetluge community, us! This then means that our insurance goes up, venues won’t want anything to do with us and it becomes impossible to put on a good race series. I don’t care if you ride without protection, I don’t care if you get hurt, but I DO care about the consequences!
Before I finish I would like to reiterate something else I said in a recent post. From watching your video I can see that you guys have a lot of talent. I think it would be great if you put “Jackass” antics and attitudes behind you and started joining us, come and find out what REAL Streetluge is.
I now ask that this be an end to this be an end to the “who is more wrong” conversation. We all have a lot to learn, so far we have been lucky and had no bad press to speak of, and I would like to keep it that way.
Joel
P.S. In response to your last post Bazil: The UKGSA put on and sanctions Events, riding and equipment used outside these events has nothing to do with them or their rules. However they do recommend that we only ride on closed roads and always use the proper equipment. There is also no “rule” that says that the video should not appear on the site. What we follow is a “Code of Conduct” so that what we do outside their jurisdiction does not reflect badly on them. The video you have questioned is an example of us following this, if somewhat loosely.
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Post by Longy on Jan 5, 2005 17:53:22 GMT
As a side... I quote "...and knows perhaps more than most the inherent dangers of riding said environments." As I've said in previous posts... Knowing about dangers, wearing leathers, helmets, gloves etc is not going to save you from spanking yourself into a car. Bazil No i think you've misunderstood my point, the very fact that Joel spanks that hill in leathers etc shows perfectly that he is very aware of the dangers involved in it. The gear wont protect you from a car whack but the "Knowledge" does. The major point is that Joel is an experienced rider, knows the road and knows how to steer and control his kit. What it all comes down to in the end is if say i had the choice of riding at speed either luge or stand-up with the SCC crew or Joel et al, then Joel and crew win hands down. I dont want to get folk aggravated but thats the nitty gritty.
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Post by Wookie on Jan 5, 2005 17:59:03 GMT
not really wanting to get to involved here but regarding the jumping/kicker thing, it looks mighty fun at the sort of speeds you're doing it at the moment, but I few of us saw I guy almost snap his head off after trying to do it at about 40-45mph, thats one stunt thats not really worth pushing the boundries with if you know what I mean anyway let the flaming continue
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Post by tristn on Jan 5, 2005 18:03:39 GMT
well said wookie if you wanna ride kickers why not do it on a skateboard i appreciate what you guys do but i just seems a bit pointless on a luge!
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Post by kkd on Jan 5, 2005 18:17:51 GMT
"3. Finally equipment. What you do looks great fun and I’m glad you enjoy it, but YOU DO NOT RIDE STREETLUGE!!!! "
Oh im sorry... how do you describe a streetluge again?
According to the rules and regs you run our luges are streetluges, (abet the length and padding) rather than buttboards, so where do you get the idea that we dont run streetluges?
According to the web dictonary: Dictionary.com :
"Luge" : "A racing sled for one or two people that is ridden with the rider or riders lying supine" "street" : "A public way or thoroughfare in a city or town, usually with a sidewalk or sidewalks"
so a streetluge must be a Luge for the street, like an iceluge (toboggan) is a luge for the ice and snow.
Awaiting your reply...
p.s. just for reference, when was the last time you rode down a street (inner city, with sidewalks) and not a lane or road??
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Post by tristn on Jan 5, 2005 19:27:12 GMT
i dont really give a sh!t whether its a streetluge,a buttboard or a pantypad with 3 wheels why dont you boys come to gurston then maybe you can settle this once and for all.(in a race that is):-) it seems like this is all getting a bit heated why not just settle it on a nice safe closed road,
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Post by sccbazil on Jan 5, 2005 20:16:52 GMT
Look, I'm just really pissed off at the fact that you (Joel) bang on and on and on and on and on and on about safety and how it's paramount and how you shouldn't be lugeing if you don't have a safe, closed road to luge on. Then this video pops up and it seems that all your safety goes out the window... I really don't give a shit if you were wearing helmets or leathers, you were sensationalising riding on a fully open main road with cars going up and down on the UKGSA website. You go so far as to say "I highly recommend that people don't buy this DVD" (words to that effect) in my thread, but yet you try and justify your actions!
My annoyance is with the consistency (lack of it) of the way you practice your so called safety rules. You also try and justify the right for that video to exist on the UKGSA website without disclaimer because "We're working outside the jurisdiction of the UKGSA"... Nonsense! If the UKGSA puts a video up on their website that features riders that are strongly affiliated with the UKGSA then THAT is an endorsment! Your video on the UKGSA is mixed with organised event footage without a seperate "home made, private luge videos" sub category.
I'm really quite pissed off about this whole thing because we're not in any way affiliated with the UKGSA (or ANY other luge organisation), we've never mentioned them on our website, videos, images, diary or our DVD yet you still think it's bad press for streetluge just because we call what we do 'streetluge' (which by definition alone, it is)... Whereas a video on the UKGSA website, mixed with event footage that shows you guys riding down a blatently open road that's wet and winding, isn't bad press? Oh wait, I forgot, you're wearing helmets and leathers and for that reason alone, it's okay. Oh and you're outside the juristiction of the UKGSA... Would random visitors (organisers of events, land owners etc.) see it this way??? Hmmmmmm.
Oh man, I've said enough...
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Post by BOS on Jan 5, 2005 21:02:40 GMT
Sorry dudes. But I have to sort of agree with Bazil on this one! If we (UKGSA) are taking the line of saftey, saftey, saftey (which i think we are) then that video should not be on the site. I have thought about this way before and was wondering when it would be picked up on. Thats not to say that i agree with the SCC chaps on other stuff. But if we are honest we are being some what hypicritical.
BOS
PS. kkd (whoever you are) why not check the IGSA website for a definintion of a streetluge.
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Post by UK Gravity Sports Asscociation on Jan 6, 2005 8:38:36 GMT
Hello all,
It's my opinion that the SCC trailer I have seen shows reckless behaviour (halfway to being jackass) it shows people being riden into walls etc!
I certainly wouldn't put a link to it from UKGSA.COM (and considered removing it from the message board. But didn't)
I'm quite happy with the Joel/Ben video staying on the website. And it will.
This being said Basil I can fully understand you feel hard done by, I would too.
I feel this argument is much more about Style and Image (which one the sport should have) than saftey.
Hope to see you ALL at gurston come the 13th Feb.
Maybe people could help the SCC boys with the loan of lethers & helmets etc.
Bye,
Graham (WebThingyBloke for UKGSA)
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Post by sccbazil on Jan 6, 2005 13:28:20 GMT
Hello all, It's my opinion that the SCC trailer I have seen shows reckless behaviour ( halfway to being jackass) it shows people being riden into walls etc! I certainly wouldn't put a link to it from UKGSA.COM (and considered removing it from the message board. But didn't) I'm quite happy with the Joel/Ben video staying on the website. And it will. This being said Basil I can fully understand you feel hard done by, I would too. I feel this argument is much more about Style and Image (which one the sport should have) than saftey. Hope to see you ALL at gurston come the 13th Feb. Maybe people could help the SCC boys with the loan of lethers & helmets etc. Bye, Graham (WebThingyBloke for UKGSA) I'm quite happy for you to have the last word on this; I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job. Our trailer does show some pretty off the wall stuff, but we're just doing what we do... We didn't make the guy hit the wall, it just happened (we knew anything could happen), besides we were only doing about 15mph coasting round a corner (it was actually my fault that he hit the wall). Anyway, what's said is said, we all know each others views on this subject, so lets let it go. Peace out.
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Post by Michael on Jan 6, 2005 20:13:30 GMT
We are Rollerbladers! Sorry to have to tell you.....
1) We Roll 2) we are all young dashing 'blades' (according to Strides dictionary)
Defining a sport using two seperate dictionary definitions is bunkum. Its the sport that defines what it is, and for the dictionary to define it correctly....and I'd suggest real Streetluge is not just hairing down a hill on a sled. Theres more to it than that.
What about Airplane? According to kddd you just need some 'air', and a 'plane'. I'll just go to my shed ad se if I can make Concorde then.
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Post by Fast Eddie on Jan 6, 2005 21:12:10 GMT
the site looke great joel, i didnt watch all of the videos but i did watch the "my hill" that was mentioned. i dont see anything wrong, looks like you have all your safety gear. the speeds were very low and safe. you used a chase car. looks great. i have been involved in g-sports since 2001 and every time a new site or video comes out there is some amount of "bashing" it must endure, its seems to be part of the sport. Fast Eddie outty
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Post by sccbazil on Jan 6, 2005 23:19:42 GMT
the site looke great joel, i didnt watch all of the videos but i did watch the "my hill" that was mentioned. i dont see anything wrong, looks like you have all your safety gear. the speeds were very low and safe. you used a chase car. looks great. i have been involved in g-sports since 2001 and every time a new site or video comes out there is some amount of "bashing" it must endure, its seems to be part of the sport. Fast Eddie outty Well then Eddie, chuck on your favourite t-shirt and a pair of shorts, throw that safety gear out, grab your luge and join us on the hill cos if you didn't see anything wrong with that video, then you shouldn't see anything wrong with what we do.
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Post by Fast Eddie on Jan 7, 2005 14:56:23 GMT
i didnt understand your post bazil, what do you do? i was not trying to irritate anyone, the only video i watched on joels site was the "my hill" and it looked like the had pads,leathers, helemets, and a chase car. they also were going very slow and had thier own car in front of them (im assuming thats where the camera was). that is about as safe as you can get when your riding on streets that are not closed off. fast eddie outty
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Post by sccbazil on Jan 7, 2005 15:12:41 GMT
i didnt understand your post bazil, what do you do? i was not trying to irritate anyone, the only video i watched on joels site was the "my hill" and it looked like the had pads,leathers, helemets, and a chase car. they also were going very slow and had thier own car in front of them (im assuming thats where the camera was). that is about as safe as you can get when your riding on streets that are not closed off. fast eddie outty I'm saying that it doesn't matter what leatheres you wear, what helmet you wear. Riding on a fully open road is about as dangerous as you can get without acually riding on the wrong side of the road. The camera car adds danger as what if something ran onto the road in front of it, or there was a tractor round the corner etc etc? I think you all put too much faith in your leathers and helmets. Leathers will do their best to stop friction burns, a helmet will protect your head to certain degree, but NONE of these will stop the chances of a car doing something stupid in front or behind you. You can't simply say "there's nothing wrong with this video because they're wearing leathers, gloves, helmets and there's a pace car"... We (The scc) would never attempt this run, leathers or not, because we know that you can't account for every driver being sensible or every chance occurance not happening. Argh, I just don't understand why you can't see how stupidly dangerous that video is!!!
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Post by Fast Eddie on Jan 7, 2005 18:54:48 GMT
sorry if i made you mad bazil, i did not inted to make anyone mad. ive been building/riding luges as a recreational hobby for about 4 years now, and i have been building/riding/racing g-bikes for about 5 years. riding on roads w/ cars is a dangerous but its hard to avoid. shutting down roads cost money, and where i live the city wont sell me a permit to shut down a road for luging/g-biking. the best i can do is wear all my safety gear, use a chase car, let traffic clear before i push off, and choose roads that do not have intersections so that i dont have to worry about anyone pulling out in front of me. i agree with you that it is dangerous, but sharing the road with cars is just something we gotta deal with and the most we can do is be as safe about it as possible. by the line of thinking you are suggesting, then no one should ever ride bicycle on the road either. it is my experience that i have just as good a chance of getting hurt from the other lugers doing something stupid as i do from the car drivers. even the guys who have been luging in california since the 70s will probably tell you the same thing. fast eddie outty home.earthlink.net/~fasteddieinkc
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Post by sccbazil on Jan 9, 2005 0:15:46 GMT
sorry if i made you mad bazil, i did not inted to make anyone mad. ive been building/riding luges as a recreational hobby for about 4 years now, and i have been building/riding/racing g-bikes for about 5 years. riding on roads w/ cars is a dangerous but its hard to avoid. shutting down roads cost money, and where i live the city wont sell me a permit to shut down a road for luging/g-biking. the best i can do is wear all my safety gear, use a chase car, let traffic clear before i push off, and choose roads that do not have intersections so that i dont have to worry about anyone pulling out in front of me. i agree with you that it is dangerous, but sharing the road with cars is just something we gotta deal with and the most we can do is be as safe about it as possible. by the line of thinking you are suggesting, then no one should ever ride bicycle on the road either. it is my experience that i have just as good a chance of getting hurt from the other lugers doing something stupid as i do from the car drivers. even the guys who have been luging in california since the 70s will probably tell you the same thing. fast eddie outty home.earthlink.net/~fasteddieinkcYo, Eddie... How's the tree top casino?
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