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Post by leew on Nov 19, 2011 22:23:31 GMT
Due to the new CSEx rules for 2012, many of us will need new tyres and maybe even wheels if we want to race there. As the rules are based on actual measured size and not the size marked on the tyre I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread to list known 'good' tyres and rims. I would hate to spend a chunk of money on a set of tyres described as 50mm only to find out that they are only 49.65mm when mounted. If you have a sutible tyre, please list it, and also the rim you are using. Also the measured width of both the tyre and rim would be useful.
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Post by grahamk on Nov 19, 2011 23:06:50 GMT
It's all a bit too confusing for me Lee, and the thought could be expensive . Buy 1 tyre to see if it fits, then another till you find out you have to change rim widths and start all over again.
Bottom line you would have to say to yourself is it worth it?
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Post by peasnbarley on Nov 19, 2011 23:59:26 GMT
Hi Lee, Good idea to start a list of Rims and tyre combinations that individuals have tried, checked and measured. Just so long as folk don't list combinations they think should be OK.
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Post by team-art on Nov 20, 2011 9:27:55 GMT
16” 305….SCHWALBE CITY JET : max psi 65 Tyre used by C12 (previously) and Cenra Bavaria (currently) marked (16x 1.95) 54-305 is definitely legal on any rim with an internal width of 24 mm (external rim width approx 30mm) or greater. TESTED. DISCLAIMER: I’m not suggesting a 24mm rim. The decision on the suitability, that is, to use a “wide tyre” on a rim of 24mm would be up to the individual! Choice in 16” rims = hard to find!
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Post by leew on Nov 20, 2011 9:37:33 GMT
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Post by leew on Nov 20, 2011 9:47:04 GMT
Other than the Big apple (which some say is rubbish) I don't see many outher sutible tyres for 305 other than crappy low pressure kids bike and wheelbarrow tyres. Does anyone know of a decent 305 rim which is 25mm or wider? I know it is not recommended to mount a tyre more than twice the width of the rim. Looks like the only really practical wheel size for CSEx is 406. Unless perhaps you make your own rims and find some old stock city jets like andy ash.
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Post by team-art on Nov 20, 2011 9:47:56 GMT
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Post by team-art on Nov 20, 2011 9:53:23 GMT
Other than the Big apple (which some say is rubbish) I don't see many outher sutible tyres for 305 other than crappy low pressure kids bike and wheelbarrow tyres. Does anyone know of a decent 305 rim which is 25mm or wider? I know it is not recommended to mount a tyre more than twice the width of the rim. Looks like the only really practical wheel size for CSEx is 406. Unless perhaps you make your own rims and find some old stock city jets like andy ash. I think the BIG APPLE is a good tyre? BUT we don't know YET if it's legal!!!!!!! in 16" & 18" here's a rim (from China!) www.weinmanntek.com/Products/CHOPPER/DHL42.htm
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Post by peasnbarley on Nov 20, 2011 10:44:31 GMT
Lee posted:
I don't know why anybody would say a Big Apple was rubbish unless perhaps it is different to what they have become used to. I have run Big Apples in all my races since 2009 and I don't think anybody would say I was gentle on them. Never had a puncture and I am still running with two tyres I have had from the start. They are slower than a narrow Kojak but I swear by them never at them. ;D
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Post by andy on Nov 21, 2011 13:13:18 GMT
I understand Peter Pope is gonna be making bespoke wheels for next year...maybe he could make a few extra ones?
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Post by peasnbarley on Nov 21, 2011 14:03:03 GMT
Hi Andy, You say Peter is building bespoke wheels do you not mean horse shoes? The last time I spoke to him he was considering making a nodding dog for the rear window of his cart and a new set of rains to improve the steering ratio. It was great speaking with him he has really worked hard on improving his abusiveness. ;D He is planning on coming up for Cairngorm early this year to abuse my hospitality and have a few test runs.
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Post by kingkay on Nov 21, 2011 20:17:56 GMT
you can still get the 305 city jets if you look about. while trying to find other stuff ive found them on a couple of sites.
no luck with 451's though.
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Post by team-art on Nov 21, 2011 21:03:40 GMT
no luck with 451's though. If you could find legal 451’s (don’t think you will) would they not be far too wide for your rims? DA22? 14mm wide? Rich
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Post by Where's me spanners ? on Nov 22, 2011 2:16:00 GMT
So if I'm on 20 inch wheels - looks like an easy choice, but how many others are doing this ? - Are the smaller wheels going to be that much better with the wider tyre on ?
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Post by team-art on Nov 23, 2011 11:37:42 GMT
So if I'm on 20 inch wheels - looks like an easy choice, but how many others are doing this ? - Are the smaller wheels going to be that much better with the wider tyre on ? Probably the best answer is that nobody actually knows!?As far as I am aware, nobody has done a direct comparison e.g. 20”wheel/1.75 tyre v 16”wheel/1.95 tyre. Until somebody does a comparison on the same Soapbox and also on different tracks (long fast track might give different results to a slower short track). Even then the results could be totally inconclusive. The weight of the particular rim used, the weight of the particular tyre used, the rolling resistance of that tyre, the pressure used. The aerodynamics of the cart. Lots of different factors could skew the results. As you say, if you’ve got a standard 20” rim (not too narrow a rim) it’s relatively easy to find a suitable tyre for Cairngom.If you’re considering 12” 16” 18” be aware that there’s an overwhelming lack of choice in wheels, rims, and tyres. Small is faster? How small? 18” 16” 12” ?? Some still maintain big is faster! I plan to experiment a bit with smaller wheels next year. But you/I could spend a lot of time, effort and money and then find out you’re no faster, or even worse, slower than the 20” you started with! Everybody’s desperately trying to find an advantage but perhaps wheels/tyres are a relatively small part of the overall package? Yes they will make a difference but wheels/tyres won’t make a fast cart slow and won’t make slow cart fast? Would C12, or Lee on horrid tyres still be fast? I’m fairly confident they’d still be very hard to beat. Sorry Gerry, more questions than answers but that probably sums up wheels/tyres! Rich
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Post by andy on Nov 23, 2011 12:15:50 GMT
It would be very helpful if could have a test day....on a closed road... where we could try different tyre size/ pressure / combinations at our leisure .......and try and get some definative results...... I may be able to put something together but would need quite a few like minded people to make it viable.
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Post by kingkay on Nov 24, 2011 0:44:50 GMT
Check how nerdy I’ve been today. Shwalbe stelvio 28 x 451 Shwalbe city jet. 54 x 305 As you can see the city jet is loads fatter, only slightly heavier (when built into wheel) and very strangely has a very similar footprint despite being loads fatter and only half the pressure. Not sure why this is but I tested it loads of times and it is. The stelvios are well worn and the city jets brand new, not sure how that may effect them. The weights are tyres, tubes rims, spokes hubs and discs. Tyres only the stelvio is 250g and the city jet 560g The city jet comes in at 47.5mm wide on 30mm rim (outside measurement) I know there’s a load more to it than that, but it’s a start. Attachments:
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Post by leew on Nov 24, 2011 8:21:41 GMT
The city jet comes in at 47.5mm wide on 30mm rim (outside measurement) Are you sure about that? If so that's going to cause big probelms for andy and c12 if they want to race at CSEx 2012. Anyone had a chance to measure a big apple yet? If the big apple is not sutible then is there any other sutible tyre for wheels less than 406?
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Post by andy on Nov 24, 2011 9:31:00 GMT
I've checked the width of my 54-305 city jets and it is just over 50mm .....so They would be ok.......maybe slightly wider than King Kay's frigures because they are not new?
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Post by kingkay on Nov 24, 2011 9:39:50 GMT
Mornng sunshine, what width are your rims?
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